We Talked to Two Sex Workers Who Actually Use the 'Uber for Escorts'

"Sex work" or "prostitution." Reprehensible or normal. Victimized or emancipated. Forbid or decriminalize.

No matter your stance in the prostitution debate, the fact is that people all over the world trade sex for money every day. But how do those supplying and those demanding get together?

In the past, that market took place on the street, in bordellos and brothels, in newspaper classified ads, and on websites like Backpage or Craigslist. But in Germany, where prostitution is legal, special apps have streamlined propositioning—or "initiating"—for the past year and a half or so.

Peppr, developed by Pia Poppenreiter and Florian Hackenberger, wants to bring the Seamless principle to prostitution—sorting by zip code included.

Poppenreiter followed up with a second service a few weeks ago: Ohlala, which doesn't liaise escorts, but rather "paid dates." The website is pink and white, not red and black. Everything is cuddly and not at all indecent.

I wanted to know how the apps are being received, who is using them, and how sex work is changing when prostitution is as simple as a smartphone app's interface. What happens when the platform becomes the pimp? What does protecting sex workers in the smartphone world look like?

So I signed up for Peppr.

The first thing I realize is how straightforward it is. I count around 120 people offering services in all of Germany, primarily in Berlin. Men are offering themselves too—very occasionally. There really isn't a lot going on here.

Prices start at 100 euros and go up from there. I contact a few of the "Pepprs" randomly. In order to make contact, I have to say how long I'd like to book for, or if I have any "extras"—fetishes, for example—that need to be taken into account. Of course I have an extra—I want an interview.

Toni and Eleni eventually say that they're willing to meet. Their conditions are they we don't use their real names and that we don't take any pictures that could reveal their identity.

Eleni, a 26-year-old who lives in Berlin, is employed full-time by a media agency. She earns money from Peppr on top of her salary for traveling and good food, she told me. She invites me over to her house, which feels more like it belongs to a student than an upscale escort. She makes pasta and we drink red wine.

MOTHERBOARD: How long have been using Peppr?
Eleni: Not long at all, maybe three quarters of a year. I actually think I read about it in Vice.

How long have you been escorting?

Since I was 19. I was in England at an expensive boarding school and later I met a former teacher of mine. He was really interested in me and for fun I said, well then pay for it. That's how it started. Totally analog. And then when you're in those circles, British upper-class, then you keep meeting those kinds of men. After taking a break for two years, I started up again when websites like mysugardaddy.eu and seekingarrangement.com emerged.

How often do you have appointments that are booked through the app?

Right now I have two regular clients that contact me outside the app. Additionally there are two to three appointments a month that I make through the app. I would never make the whole sex thing my main profession because I don't want to have to depend on it. If I had to do it, then I couldn't decide freely.

I also don't just meet them in a hotel room, I always meet the guy for a drink or food before so I have the opportunity to decide whether I want to of through with it or not.

What are the men like, your clients?

They're surprisingly young men, not necessarily over 50, which is the cliché. Lots of people from the startup scene, anger investors and the like. But I don't know if that's representative. I think that I serve a niche because I'm not a "whore's whore" and I'm also not an upscale escort that shows up in high heels. I bike to dinner. My niche is the free, wild woman. I think that my clients are men that want to break out of their lives.

How does a night with you normally go?

I get in contact one or two days before if it's a new guy. I get the message from Peppr. It says how long they want to book me for, usually two to five hours. And then we set up drinks or dinner before.

Then we figure out if we're going to a hotel or home. I also figure out before by text what they're into, whether there are fantasies they want to live out. I have fun with it and I'm offering a service, I want to do it well.

Are there certain things you won't do?

Definitely. That's the good thing about Peppr, I can make what I won't do clear in advance. I would say that I go relatively far, but of course there are limits.

What's the difference between seekingarrangement.com and Peppr?

Seekingarrangement is an American website so there are very few Europeans. It's the whole sugar daddy/sugar baby thing.

What is that, a sugar daddy?

I think there are different interpretations of what it can be. There are these Louis Vuitton bunnies that want their "sugar daddy" to take them shopping. The money isn't flowing directly, it's about presents. But there are also professional sex workers on there. And then there are people where sex is the elephant in the room. It's ultimately about sex for money, it's just packaged nicer.

What makes you say that?

I don't find it indecent. But a former sugar daddy of mine told me that there are a lot of really young girls from the countryside on there that even pay for their own train ticket and think it's an adventure to go to a fancy dinner and stay in an expensive hotel.

I think it's important that young women have found themselves and defined themselves before they start doing it. I think it can destroy your sexuality and your self-esteem if you're too young and you don't know what you want and what your limits are.

Then wouldn't you be in favor of professionalizing sex work?

No idea, I never really thought about it. I think the trend is going in a totally different direction: do-it-yourself. Anyone can publish a book and anyone can be a whore. There are always ways and means. You can't express the warning, "Only women who have found themselves please." I think that's the danger that everyone has to carry around themselves.

What makes the Peppr app different?

I like Peppr because it's clearly about the business of prostitution. Even if I'm not a typical Peppt user, I'm too complicated and too expensive to be one. A weekend costs 3,000 to 4,000 euros; two hours is 1,000. Peppr is designed to make things fast and easy, most people ask for 200 euros/hour. You can mark when you're readily available: I can be there in an hour. But I find the directness and honesty of the app good. I only briefly looked at the new app, Ohlala. It looks much more feminine, so I think it's directed at women not men.

If sex work were illegal, would you stop?

I can't imagine how they would enforce such a thing. Like the sugar daddy thing, where there's no cash but he'll buy you a flight or a handbag.

In many countries it explicitly says that accepting goods for sex is illegal.

Well then I'd just say that I'm having an affaire with the guy. How are they going to prove I'm not? But to answer your question, I could let it go.

Are you afraid of being outed?

My parents know about it, it wouldn't be that bad. But it's still something I'd like to avoid.

Somebody actually wrote me on Facebook today and said, I know what you do and where you work. Google Image Search. I used to have an image on seekingarrangement.com that I also used on Facebook. Berlin is a tiny city, you have to watch out. Even on Tinder, you see someone you know every five minutes.

Does Peppr need to do more to protect you?

I wouldn't know how. As a client I need to know who I have in front of me, so there has to be a picture. If I use the same picture somewhere else, that's my problem.

Do you think what you're doing is dangerous?

I have a system for protecting myself. My two best friends always know where I am when I have a job.

If I don't know the client at all, then I'll call someone in front of him and make it clear they know where I am. Or I'll mention in passing that I'm being picked up at a certain time or that I'll be expected.

How often do you say no?

Very rarely to be honest, maybe one in twenty. It's usually more or less a fit. I can find something attractive in most men, otherwise it wouldn't work for me at all. But if it isn't there, then it isn't possible, because I won't be able to deliver and then the man doesn't get anything. And I don't want that at all either, because I think it would ruin the notion of sex for me.

Has it ever happened the other way around, that someone said no to you?

No never. What has happened though is that they fall in love with me and then they want to save me. "I'll marry you, build you a house and make you into an honest woman."

Toni, 26, lives in Berlin. He's been on Peppr basically since the beginning. He comes over to my house for our conversation. He's very interested in my apartment and its furnishings since he recently founded a home/living startup with a friend. He moved here from London to do it three years ago, also because rent is much cheaper here.

MOTHERBOARD: Why do you do sex work if you're an entrepreneur?

Toni: I started eight years ago, when I started studying. It started as a joke. Me and a few friends registered at an escort agency and bet on who would get booked first. To make a long story short, I won. And I enjoyed it.

The dates are very very rarely about sex. It's mostly about being a temporary friend, about cuddling and conversation. I like that. Usually doing something totally different with someone that I would never meet otherwise. That's how it started.

Wait, it's not about sex? There are really paid dates?

Yes of course. Really, for me it's only a small number of dates that are about sex. Sometimes I meet a woman seven times before it gets to sex. Sometimes I can tell she wants it but she's too awkward to sat so and I basically have to encourage her. "Hey, I've seen a vagina before, it's no problem." Barriers are fluid.

How often do you get booked?

In the last eight months, since Peppr has existed, about 25 times I would guess. Two thirds of the bookings come from two people that I meet each week or every two weeks.

What are your clients like?

They aren't bored housewives that are looking for a gigolo out of frustration. On the contrary, they're successful businesswomen who are a bit bored. They have money but they don't have time for relationships. They want to go to a concert, but it's no fun to go alone. So I go with them.

What do you make on average and what do you do with the money?

A date usually lasts four hours at 100 euros. I pay taxes on the income and I would say, after taxes, it's about 2,000 to 3,000 euros a month. But money isn't that important to me. I bought a bike recently. Things for my apartment, I make art and the materials are expensive. The rest I save for the future. More money means more possibilities.

Have you used other escort apps or websites?

No, I was working for an agency before.

What's better?

Apps. Definitely. I have a friend for example that manages bookings. With the app he can go on as me, check out the women and see if the requests are serious. At the agency you have to pay to apply and then there's a registration fee. I have the feeling that a lot of agencies live off of the fees.

Is the legal standing of sex work important to you?

I argue a lot with my friends about sex work and whether apps like Peppr mean progress. A friend of mine is a leftist feminist, she opposes prostitution and my roommate also hates the idea of Peppr. I think apps like Peppr are another option, aside from brothels and street prostitution and escort agencies, and they make you independent.

An app means that almost anyone can use it. Even if only a few people are right now. But it can continue to develop. People who do sex work and don't have any other options and are dependent on other people, that's the problem. Not an app.

Would you stop going on dates if prostitution were illegal?

I would do it differently. I would continue to do it with the clients I have and would get to know new clients through word of mouth. But I would stop openly looking for them.

There's also the new app "Ohlala," which isn't talking about escorting or sex but rather paid dates. What's that about?

It's branded differently. They want to reach other people with it. I don't think Ohlala is going to get more people into sex work, I think what already exists will come to Ohlala.

What would you criticize about Peppr?

The color and the logo, it's way too red light district, too kitsch.

A version of this article originally appeared on Motherboard Germany.