Snowden at FutureFest: Mass Spying Isn’t Going To Stop the Next Terror Attack

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While spying programmes serve a purpose, that purpose isn't public safety.

It may come as a surprise, but Edward Snowden has defended spying as necessary; he just wants surveillance to have real oversight—and not to be conducted against all of us.

In a video interview broadcast at FutureFest in London, Snowden said it's important to see that, "some of these programmes do serve purposes, so we see where to draw the line".

And key to that is understanding the true purpose of mass surveillance: The targets aren't terrorists, and it's never stopped a terrorist attack. The attackers in the Charlie Hedbo, Canadian Parliament, and Australian shootings were all known to their governments, he noted. "They're not going to stop the next attacks either," he said. "Because they're not public safety programs. They're spying programmes."

However, he noted that "they're extremely valuable in terms of spying." Spying has benefits, he said, giving governments information on everything from trade negotiations to foreign militaries. "Some of these things are valuable, and you want to retain these… but you have to have this debate in the public," he said.

Meanwhile, Snowden called on the government to stop trying to "weasel their way out" by calling surveillance "bulk collection"—as the UK government's Intelligence and Security Committee did in last week's report on the issue.

"But the question that we as a society have to ask, our are collective rights worth a small advantage in our ability to spy," Snowden added.

It is possible to have that debate whether the government wants us to or not—and here in the UK, foreign secretary Phillip Hammond said the debate "cannot be allowed to run on forever".

Snowden pointed out that mass surveillance is "one of the few places in the global political debate where we have a choice." If you don't want a dystopian hellhole where governments around the world can see everything you say or do, there's something you can do about it: use end-to-end encryption.

"I think it's more likely than not, actually," he said, "that the technical side of the argument will win, because it's much easier, I think, to protect communications while they're in transit than it is to enforce legislation in every country in the world to say that you can't do this."

Snowden was also asked about Wikileaks' support while he was looking for a safe haven. He praised the organisation for its assistance—the group helped get negotiate permission for him to travel to Ecuador, though Snowden couldn't reach the country—but said he had no criticism for other press organisations that didn't step up to help, saying it certainly wasn't rational to get involved.

"Sometimes that irrational commitment to an ideal is what society needs to survive," he said, pointing out that his own decision to give up his "charmed life" of a well-paid position in the "paradise" of Hawaii would certainly qualify as irrational behaviour.

Snowden's talk was so popular at FutureFest that the Google Hangout stream was shown on every spare large display, with attendees sitting on the floor to watch. Applause echoed throughout the filled halls at the final question—"How are you coping?"—and at his answer. "Weirdly, I don't think about the future any more," he said. "Before any of this happened, I had a much more forward-looking perspective," he said, thinking about vacations, retirement and what to next in his life. "One of the unexpectedly liberating things of become a global fugitive is you don't worry so much about tomorrow, you worry about today. Unexpectedly, I like that very much."